Saturday, October 17, 1998 23:53:47
Marty Connor::Transhumanism, anyone? ;-)
the_living:i was curious about Antoine:'s special interest in transhumanism
the_living:we have discussed various things with henri, minduploading the most
the_living:and george was telling us a bit about his interest
the_living:in quicker and better learning, if i understand correctly
Antoine::the copy-paradox etc?
http://sunsite.unc.edu/jstrout/uploading/duplication.html
the_living:yes
the_living:we spoke about two bodies
the_living:one body
the_living:and both marty and i
Marty Connor::n-bodies ;-)
the_living:vented various concerns
the_living:what is your particular interest in >H Antoine:, so that maybe we can address THAT issue
Marty Connor::What possibilities interest you the most about transhumanism?
Marty Connor::What makes it interesting to you?
Antoine::well survival and extending your abilities and live live to the max
Antoine::live life
the_living:do you have any special area of interest....like mind uploading?
http://sunsite.unc.edu/jstrout/uploading/enhancements.html
or nanotechnology?
http://www.foresight.org/EOC/EOC_Chapter_1.html#section01of10
the_living:mind uploading i have to say
the_living:intrigues me the most
the_living:more than cryo
the_living:i don't like the idea of going under
the_living:and hoping and trusting to come back
the_living:i like the idea however of trying out a new body
the_living:a refitting
Antoine::yes, i do, but i don't see it happening in the near future
Antoine::i think it's very complicated to do
the_living:henri was telling us......50 years at least
the_living:do you think the technology for cryo will be faster?
the_living:are there already people frozen in?
Antoine::about 80
Antoine::if it's possible to upload my consiousness i would do it
the_living:i would like that very much
the_living:just as a backup
Antoine::yes at Alcor
http://www.alcor.org/
the_living:and what is this that henri told me about starting an ALCOR chapter in the Netherlands
the_living:the webcast is at http://www.desk.nl/~dfm
the_living:if you go there
Antoine::ah it's 0:00
the_living:you can hear 'zarvox' speak our chat!!!!
the_living:excellent!!!
Antoine::well we can start an alcor.nl to promote cryonics anfd to make it easier to sign-up etc
Antoine::it's non-profit
the_living:and you will be going to london next week to learn about freezing
Antoine::yes we will learn about the newest technologies, and join a course about it
the_living:so you are considering setting up a LAB
Antoine::as a cryo-technician you could also get some discounts for the membership
Marty Connor::listen my children and you will hear of transhuman thought, and some of our fears ;-)
the_living:and what are the qualifications to become such a cryo technician?
the_living:i might be interested in this
the_living:are there any cryonics success stories
the_living:has an animal been revived yet?
Antoine::well you have to be a member of Alcor and you'll get some study-material
the_living:are you sworn to secrecy?
Antoine::to study before the course (haven't received that yet)
the_living:has an ANIMAL been revived yet forexample?
Marty Connor::(primative experiments in resuscitation of small animals is a longstanding scientific fact)
* Marty Connor:: (is this thing reading geeks?)
the_living:after what period of time, marty
Antoine::eh succes stories? well there have been experiments with animals but they haven't been frozen below 0 degrees
the_living:so they have
Marty Connor::brief periods...
the_living:been kept at low temperatures.... preserved, or kept in a suspended state
Marty Connor::of course, depending on the species, hibernative states are possible
Antoine::we had to sign a document to keep some information within the organisation of Alcor
the_living:ok
Antoine::well a dog has been kept at 1 degree
the_living:and he was revived?
the_living:later?
the_living:yes, but are there two separate consciousnesses that develope then?
Antoine::there are connections between the left brain and the right brain, but the can be cut (by a surgeon)
the_living:but that just makes me imagine motoric problems.... i would be interested in two separate ....minds
the_living:welcome BOOT
Marty Connor::well, if we accept that the mind exists mostly in the brain, as an electrochemical process, it might make some sense...
Antoine::i don't know that much about it , but i read there were conflicts between the left and right brain then (including motoric problems)
Marty Connor::however, sense it must obviously be encoded in the DNA of the person, the "recipe" for mind exists in all of us...
Antoine::that's exactly what transhumanists think
the_living:but do you remember reading anything about (in this particular case) of.... two separate consciousnesses developing?
Marty Connor::I believe one could argue that it was two consiousnesses; but not in the sense I think you mean...
Marty Connor::If it were two completely seperate consciousnesses, lower medulic processes like heartbeat might be negatively affected...
Antoine::i think they were suggesting something like that
the_living:you know when you have two screens and you do.......video mirroring?
Marty Connor::I believe the split would only work in the upper brain
the_living:it would be funny to have a parrallel consciousness
the_living:consciousness mirroring
the_living:explain marty..
the_living:what do you mean by upper brain?
Antoine::the cortex?
Marty Connor::well, certain processes live in the upper part of the brain
the_living:what happens there?
the_living:what happens in the NiederBrein?
Marty Connor::and the more primitive stuff happens in the lower brain, near the stem
the_living:and the UberBrein?
the_living:NetSPlit
the_living:UpperBrain SPLIT!
Antoine::the instincts (pre-programmed) are in the lower brains and the cortex programmes itself
the_living:yes, as we develop
Marty Connor::our brain gets wrinkles too ;-)
the_living:i wish all my wrinkles would just go to my brain
Marty Connor::People who have had very specific brain trauma have exhibited very specific losses of function..
Antoine::more wrinkles in the brain is better (larger area)
the_living:okay, i'm going to become a regist
ered member of the WTA right now actually the_living:(yes Ant, that's what i'm thinking....ageing = smarter!!!)
Marty Connor::such as the inability to remember... in some cases it's quite striking... such as the pianist who lost his long-term memory...
Marty Connor::he thought he was meeting everyone for the first time...even his wife ;-)
the_living:yes, i have seen a series on teh bbc about this Dr. Sachs
Marty Connor::then he would forget them, quickly, and they would be new to him...
the_living:who was telling storiesof all sorts of neurological disorders and his patients
Marty Connor::imagine being able to remove a brain, connect it to some interface, and have it function...
Marty Connor::imagine being on a ref with people who were just transmitting thoughts...
the_living:last year, Ant, did you see this bbc series.....about Dr. Sachs and his patients?
Antoine::yes that was in a movie "victim of the brain"
the_living:its very different marty
Antoine::ne not the bbc serie: i didn't see that
Antoine::living: do you think you are a transhumanist?
the_living:i'm reading about the transhumanist art movement
the_living:Antoine:, i do actually
Antoine::what do you think about the art movement?
the_living:what motivated me to do this project.... is probably..... unwitting transhumanist thought
the_living:i'm still unsure the art....is not my styleeee
the_living:i think the NVMore stuff is.... romantic
Antoine::she says art is a way to spread meme's
the_living:this body stuff
the_living:she is right
the_living:she is not the only one who says that
Antoine::yep the_living:in this project of mine, the_living
the_living:i really endeavour to live in a future scenario
the_living:to live as a digi-being
the_living:as an experiment
the_living:its apsychological experiment
the_living:and a conceptual one
Antoine::i read it's for 1 year, when did the project start?
the_living:it hasn't yet started
the_living:it will start
the_living:when i go mobile
the_living:as the_living
the_living:i hope in the next 3 months
the_living:that is my plan
the_living:in the extropic art manifest there are lots of concepts that iagree with....or aspire to in my work
the_living:similar goals
the_living:all today i have been asking myself if i am a transhuman
the_living:right now i'm reading: A HREF="http://www.extropic-art.com/extropic.htm
the_living:and I quote: I am the architect of my existence. My art reflects my vision and represents my values. It conveys the very essence of my being-coalescing imagination and reason, challenging all limits.
the_living:this is from the extropic art manifesto
! the_living:"Extropic Art emphasizes the infinite possibilities of self-transformation as we seek new values indispensable to our self-creation. "
Antoine::living: that's why i mentioned Natasha's URL. I wondered what you think about it
the_living:well i wholly agree with the statements i just quoted
the_living:or not agree
the_living:it is more, that i aspire to the same
the_living:which i guess inadvertently makes me a transhumanist
Marty Connor::>H >H >H >H ;-)
the_living:i especially like the part about........ art influencing social and cultural change
the_living:>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H
Marty Connor::
the_living:i am going to UPLOAD MY MIND RIGHT NOW!!!!!
Marty Connor::do it living ;-)
Marty Connor::in living color!!!!! ;-)
the_living:here SHE GOES!!!
the_living:damn NET CONGESTION
the_living:YOU GETTIN MY MIND ?
Antoine::go for it!
Marty Connor::lol, living!!!
the_living:can't you see me uploading my mind!!!????
Marty Connor::I thought that was normal, living ;-)
Antoine::no she's still uploading i think ;)
Marty Connor::hee hee... she's always 20 minutes into the future ;-)
Antoine::how many bytes do you have to upload? ;))
the_living:jeeze.... i don't know.... sixty million terrabytes?
Marty Connor::Well, let's say the speed of light... 1 bit per picosecond or so...
Antoine::someone calculated it, i don't remember what it was
the_living:roughly?
Marty Connor::hmmm, and it fits in that lovely cranial container too ;-)
Antoine::i'll try to look it up now
Marty Connor::hmmm, who's the person in the background?
Marty Connor::living... living.... your upload
the_living:in my stocking feet?
Marty Connor::make sure they don't unplug anything!!
the_living:that's a friend
the_living:of mine
the_living:they're helping me!
Marty Connor::oh alright... whew
Marty Connor::was worried ;-)
Marty Connor::don't wanna lose a precious bit of your mind ;-)
Marty Connor::(talk about giving a piece of your mind ;-)
Marty Connor::I wouldn't mind being a naturist subhumanist ;-)
Antoine::yes that's true :)
Marty Connor::Imagine every electron in the universe was storage space ;-)
Marty Connor::How's the upload going, living? I'd like a closer look ;-)
Marty Connor::I assume your mind will be in the public domain?
Marty Connor::I'd GPL my mind, if I uploaded it ;-)
the_living:Yes it will be
Marty Connor::So people could use pieces of it for their own purposes... ;-)
the_living:YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK
* Marty Connor:: lol, let's mingle minds, babeeeeeee ;-)
the_living:yes.... this is the whole concept of becoming....m e d i a
* Marty Connor:: let's get mind to mind.... ;-)
F3::That's campaigning I like that
the_living:join in
Marty Connor::Hee hee, should we get a second tape for your mind dump, living? ;-)
the_living:TAPE
Marty Connor::>H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H
the_living:>H
the_living:no, melted silica
the_living:and cumquat marmalade!!!!
Antoine::on http://www.merkle.com/merkleDir/techFeas.html there is a calculation about how much bytes a brain is. very interesting
F3::analog as most of my bytes
the_living:i'lll still be using my body
the_living:getting a copy body for my mind
the_living:i want to install the 'system' in a baby body!!!!
Antoine::become immortal that way
F3::hihi spin the cradle
the_living:i would like to very much
the_living:i wonder what i would 'notice' about the download!!??
the_living:what would that be like.....please lets think about what it would be like to download your mind into the body of a baby
the_living:a new born baby
the_living:i just realised though
the_living:that we would have to extract the baby's mind
F3::time to get tickled
the_living:and that presents a dilemna
the_living:RIGHTS FOR ALL MINDS!!!!!
Antoine::maybe a body generated without a brain
Dread_Rat::can't just kick the mind that's in charge there out
F3::need om,e nice soup to swim in
the_living:but you could do an overwrite
the_living:INTIALISING BRAIN
the_living:FORMATT into TWO VOLUMES
F3::I wouldn't do with plug-ins
the_living:but just imagine
Dread_Rat::was wondering what it would require to just be able to reboot your brain if you wanted
the_living:being in the body of a baby!
Antoine::the baby could talk immediately :)
the_living:teh baby could drive a car
the_living:and would have had sex
the_living:already
Antoine::no too small i think ;)
F3::skip learning - I wouldnt do that
the_living:that's what car seats are for
the_living:you don't STOP learning F3
Antoine::baby-seats ;)
the_living:lol
the_living:that's what i meant
the_living:but you could still suckle
the_living:imagine being older than your biological parents
the_living:you could have blueberry joghurt milkshakes
F3::mothermilkshake
the_living:i'm trying to find out how many terrabytes my brain is
F3::Still recounting braincells?
Antoine::the article says the long term memory could be in 100 Megabytes?
the_living:is not that much
Antoine::the article is more about how to fix a brain that has been frozen
the_living:yes i see that
F3::and the whole world population in 2 sqare kilometers (frozen)
Antoine::i was surprised
the_living:is not really in terms of minduploading
Antoine::a frozen brain could also be uploaded
the_living:a frozen brain.....?
the_living:so that when it was thawed,..... it would have a mind
Antoine::maybe one day that would be easier to do than fixing (just scanning it)
Antoine::yep
the_living:would be handy
F3::if you'd imagine everything happening between y' ears
the_living:lol
the_living:doesn't it?
the_living:also between the fingers
the_living:i think it would be quite depressing actually to get a pre-pubescent body to download your mind in to...
F3::I wonder if brains only would be democratic
F3::brains in soup is best
the_living:what do you mean by brains only
F3::good soup
the_living:brains only would not be nice
Dread_Rat::hm, yeay, knowing what you know and with the experiences of an adult getting to grips with a small & inexperienced body and nervous system would be cumbersome
F3::lets say there wouldnt be much necessary to keep em working
the_living:it would be nice to 19 thought
Antoine::i'm back, as an upload you could completely live in a virtual reality (theoretically)
the_living:yes, that would be heavenly
Antoine::i was thinking about that, but i would want someting real too
the_living:imagine, all the downloaders would have young bodies probably
the_living:yes, a whole wardrobe of bodies
Antoine::you could choose your body every day
F3::woolworths would do well
the_living:hello tarz1
TarZ-ME:hey living:)
F3::its the choice not the body which tickles
Dread_Rat::trade in your 2nd hand bodies and purchase some new models
the_living:yes, dispose of those things
F3::mine is not 2nd hand
the_living:i'm battering mine a bit
the_living:for example...i'm getting tired
the_living:which is actually a damn good thing
Dread_Rat:F3 once you wanna get rid of it it is.
F3::Id sell it as antique not as secondhand
the_living:imagine shopping for a body
Dread_Rat::hehhe, ok ok :)
the_living:retail therapy
TarZ-ME:shopping for a body.. lol
TarZ-ME:that's almost what you do when you choose an avatar in cyberspace
the_living:yes.....you dream it up
F3::once you stop caring about getting damaged
the_living:then there must come an interface for
constructing the body just RIGHT out of the mind
the_living:the mind tells the little nanobots to get working on this and that
TarZ-ME:sort of an aura
Antoine::with nanotechnology?
the_living:MAKE ME SOME HAIR, says the bald man
the_living:YES
TarZ-ME:a physical aura
the_living:make my breath smell clean, you bots, you!
F3::to much organizing, I'd stick to soup and run an off-shore baha
the_living:surprises me that you don't want a bod, F3 TarZ-ME::)
the_living:self replication
F3::***
the_living:Further work on self-replicating systems was done by NASA in 1980 in a report that considered the feasibility of implementing a self-replicating lunar manufacturing facility with conventional technology[48]
F3::an army YES
the_living:http://www.nano.xerox.com/nanotech/selfRepNASA.html
F3::and do survival games
Antoine::http://www.foresight.org is doing research on that
Antoine::living: have you read "Engines of Creation"?
the_living:i am reading it now, see? Engines of Creation