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| Marty Connor::Transhumanism, anyone? ;-) the_living:i was curious about Antoine's special interest in transhumanism the_living:we have discussed various things with henri, minduploading the most the_living:and george was telling us a bit about his interest the_living:in quicker and better learning, if i understand correctly Antoine::the copy-paradox etc? the_living:yes the_living:we spoke about two bodies the_living:one body the_living:and both marty and i Marty Connor::n-bodies ;-) the_living:vented various concerns the_living:what is your particular interest in >H Antoine:, so that maybe we can address THAT issue Marty Connor::What possibilities interest you the most about transhumanism? Marty Connor::What makes it interesting to you? Antoine::well survival and extending your abilities and live live to the max Antoine::live life the_living:do you have any special area of interest....like mind uploading? or nanotechnology? the_living:mind uploading i have to say the_living:intrigues me the most the_living:more than cryo the_living:i don't like the idea of going under the_living:and hoping and trusting to come back the_living:i like the idea however of trying out a new body the_living:a refitting Antoine::yes, i do, but i don't see it happening in the near future Antoine::i think it's very complicated to do the_living:henri was telling us......50 years at least |  | the_living:do you think the technology for cryo will be faster? the_living:are there already people frozen in? Antoine::about 80 Antoine::if it's possible to upload my consiousness i would do it the_living:i would like that very much the_living:just as a backup Antoine::yes at Alcor the_living:and what is this that henri told me about starting an ALCOR chapter in the NL the_living:the webcast is at Radio DFM International the_living:if you go there Antoine::ah it's 0:00 the_living:you can hear 'zarvox' speak our chat!!!! the_living:excellent!!! Antoine::well we can start an alcor.nl to promote cryonics and to make it easier to sign-up etc Antoine::it's non-profit the_living:and you will be going to london next week to learn about freezing Antoine::yes we will learn about the newest technologies, and join a course about it the_living:so you are considering setting up a LAB Antoine::as a cryo-technician you could also get some discounts for the membership Marty Connor::listen my children and you will hear of transhuman thought, and some of our fears ;-) the_living:and what are the qualifications to become such a cryo technician? the_living:i might be interested in this the_living:are there any cryonics success stories the_living:has an animal been revived yet? Antoine::well you have to be a member of Alcor and you'll get some study-material |  | the_living:are you sworn to secrecy? Antoine::to study before the course (haven't received that yet) the_living:has an ANIMAL been revived yet forexample? Marty Connor::(primative experiments in resuscitation of small animals is a longstanding scientific fact) the_living:after what period of time, marty Antoine::eh succes stories? well there have been experiments with animals but they haven't been frozen below 0 degrees the_living:so they have Marty Connor::brief periods... the_living:been kept at low temperatures.... preserved, or kept in a suspended state Marty Connor::of course, depending on the species, hibernative states are possible Antoine::we had to sign a document to keep some information within the organisation of Alcor the_living:ok Antoine::well a dog has been kept at 1 degree the_living:and he was revived? the_living:later? the_living:yes, but are there two separate consciousnesses that develope then? Antoine::there are connections between the left brain and the right brain, but the can be cut (by a surgeon) the_living:but that just makes me imagine motoric problems.... i would be interested in two separate ....minds the_living:welcome BOOT Marty Connor::well, if we accept that the mind exists mostly in the brain, as an electrochemical process, it might make some sense... Antoine::i don't know that much about it , but i read there were conflicts between the left and right brain then (including motoric problems) |  | Marty Connor::however, sense it must obviously be encoded in the DNA of the person, the "recipe" for mind exists in all of us... Antoine::that's exactly what transhumanists think the_living:but do you remember reading anything about (in this particular case) of.... two separate consciousnesses developing? Marty Connor::I believe one could argue that it was two consiousnesses; but not in the sense I think you mean. If it were two completely seperate consciousnesses, lower medulic processes like heartbeat might be negatively affected... Antoine::i think they were suggesting something like that the_living:you know when you have two screens and you do.......video mirroring? Marty Connor::I believe the split would only work in the upper brain the_living:it would be funny to have a parrallel consciousness the_living:consciousness mirroring the_living:explain marty.. the_living:what do you mean by upper brain? Antoine::the cortex? Marty Connor::well, certain processes live in the upper part of the brain the_living:what happens there? the_living:what happens in the NiederBrein? Marty Connor::and the more primitive stuff happens in the lower brain, near the stem the_living:and the UberBrein? the_living:NetSPlit the_living:UpperBrain SPLIT! Antoine::the instincts (pre-programmed) are in the lower brains and the cortex programmes itself the_living:yes, as we develop Marty Connor::our brain gets wrinkles too ;-) the_living:i wish all my wrinkles would just go to my brain Marty Connor::People who have had very specific brain trauma have exhibited very specific losses of function.. Antoine::more wrinkles in the brain is better (larger area) |  | the_living:okay, i'm going to become a registered member of the WTA right now actually the_living:(yes Ant, that's what i'm thinking....ageing = smarter!!!) Marty Connor::such as the inability to remember... in some cases it's quite striking... such as the pianist who lost his long-term memory... Marty Connor::he thought he was meeting everyone for the first time...even his wife ;-) the_living:yes, i have seen a series on teh bbc about this Dr. Sachs Marty Connor::then he would forget them, quickly, and they would be new to him... the_living:who was telling storiesof all sorts of neurological disorders and his patients Marty Connor::imagine being able to remove a brain, connect it to some interface, and have it function... the_living:last year, Ant, did you see this bbc series.....about Dr. Sachs and his patients? Antoine::yes that was in a movie "victim of the brain" the_living:its very different marty Antoine::ne not the bbc serie: i didn't see that Antoine::living: do you think you are a transhumanist? the_living:i'm reading about the transhumanist art movement the_living:Antoine:, i do actually Antoine::what do you think about the art movement? the_living:what motivated me to do this project.... is probably..... unwitting transhumanist thought. i'm still unsure the art....is not my styleeee the_living:i think the NVMore stuff is.... romantic Antoine::she says art is a way to spread meme's the_living:this body stuff the_living:she is right, she is not the only one who says that Antoine::yep the_living:in this project of mine, the_living the_living:i really endeavour to live in a future scenario the_living:to live as a digi-being, as an experiment the_living:its a psychological experiment, and a conceptual one |  | Antoine::i read it's for 1 year, when did the project start? the_living:it hasn't yet started the_living:it will start when i go mobile the_living:as the_living the_living:i hope in the next 3 months the_living:that is my plan the_living:in the extropic art manifest there are lots of concepts that iagree with....or aspire to in my work the_living:similar goals the_living:all today i have been asking myself if i am a transhuman the_living:right now i'm reading: the extropic art manifesto the_living:and I quote: I am the architect of my existence. My art reflects my vision and represents my values. It conveys the very essence of my being-coalescing imagination and reason, challenging all limits. the_living:this is from the extropic art manifesto ! the_living:"Extropic Art emphasizes the infinite possibilities of self-transformation as we seek new values indispensable to our self-creation. " Antoine::living: that's why i mentioned Natasha's URL. I wondered what you think about it the_living:well i wholly agree with the statements i just quoted the_living:or not agree the_living:it is more, that i aspire to the same the_living:which i guess inadvertently makes me a transhumanist Marty Connor::>H >H >H >H ;-) the_living:i especially like the part about........ art influencing social and cultural change the_living:>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H>H> Marty Connor:: |  | the_living:i am going to UPLOAD MY MIND RIGHT NOW!!!!! Marty Connor::do it living ;-) in living color!!!!! ;-) the_living:here SHE GOES!!! the_living:damn NET CONGESTION the_living:YOU GETTIN MY MIND ? Antoine::go for it! Marty Connor::lol, living!!! the_living: can't you see me uploading my mind!!!???? Marty Connor::I thought that was normal, living ;-) Antoine::no she's still uploading i think ;) Marty Connor::hee hee... she's always 20 minutes into the future ;-) Antoine::how many bytes do you have to upload? ;)) the_living:jeeze.... i don't know.... sixty million terrabytes? Marty Connor::Well, let's say the speed of light... 1 bit per picosecond or so... Antoine::someone calculated it, i don't remember what it was the_living:roughly? Marty Connor::hmmm, and it fits in that lovely cranial container too ;-) Antoine::i'll try to look it up now Marty Connor::hmmm, who's the person in the background? Marty Connor::living... living.... your upload the_living:in my stocking feet? Marty Connor::make sure they don't unplug anything!! the_living:they're friends, of mine, helping me! Marty Connor::oh alright... whew, was worried ;-) Marty Connor::don't wanna lose a precious bit of your mind ;-) Marty Connor::(talk about giving a piece of your mind ;-) Marty Connor::I wouldn't mind being a naturist subhumanist ;-) Antoine::yes that's true :) |  | Marty Connor::Imagine every electron in the universe was storage space ;-) Marty Connor::How's the upload going, living? I'd like a closer look ;-) Marty Connor::I assume your mind will be in the public domain? Marty Connor::I'd GPL my mind, if I uploaded it ;-) the_living:Yes it will be Marty Connor::So people could use pieces of it for their own purposes... ;-) the_living:YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK Marty Connor:: lol, let's mingle minds, babeeeeeee ;-) the_living:yes.... this is the whole concept of becoming....m e d i a Marty Connor:: let's get mind to mind.... ;-) F3::That's campaigning I like that the_living:join in Marty Connor::Hee hee, should we get a second tape for your mind dump, living? ;-) the_living:TAPE Marty Connor::>H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H >H the_living:>H the_living:no, melted silica the_living:and cumquat marmalade!!!! Antoine::on this url there is a calculation about how much bytes a brain is. very interesting F3::analog as most of my bytes the_living:i'lll still be using my body the_living:getting a copy body for my mind the_living:i want to install the 'system' in a baby body!!!! Antoine::become immortal that way F3::hihi spin the cradle the_living:i would like to very much the_living:i wonder what i would 'notice' about the download!!?? |  | the_living:what would that be like.....please lets think about what it would be like to download your mind into the body of a baby the_living:a new born baby the_living:i just realised though the_living:that we would have to extract the baby's mind F3::time to get tickled the_living:and that presents a dilemna the_living:RIGHTS FOR ALL MINDS!!!!! Antoine::maybe a body generated without a brain Dread_Rat::can't just kick the mind that's in charge there out F3::need om,e nice soup to swim in the_living:but you could do an overwrite the_living:INTIALISING BRAIN the_living:FORMATT into TWO VOLUMES F3::I wouldn't do with plug-ins the_living:but just imagine Dread_Rat::was wondering what it would require to just be able to reboot your brain if you wanted the_living:being in the body of a baby! Antoine::the baby could talk immediately :) the_living:the baby could drive a car the_living:and would have had sex the_living:already Antoine::no too small i think ;) |  | F3::skip learning - I wouldnt do that the_living:that's what car seats are for the_living:you don't STOP learning F3 Antoine::baby-seats ;) the_living:lol the_living:that's what i meant the_living:but you could still suckle the_living:imagine being older than your biological parents the_living:you could have blueberry joghurt milkshakes F3::mothermilkshake the_living:i'm trying to find out how many terrabytes my brain is F3::Still recounting braincells? Antoine::the article says the long term memory could be in 100 Megabytes? the_living:is not that much Antoine::the article is more about how to fix a brain that has been frozen the_living:yes i see that F3::and the whole world population in 2 sqare kilometers (frozen) Antoine::i was surprised the_living:is not really in terms of minduploading Antoine::a frozen brain could also be uploaded the_living:a frozen brain.....? the_living:so that when it was thawed,..... it would have a mind Antoine::maybe one day that would be easier to do than fixing (just scanning it) Antoine::yep the_living:would be handy F3::if you'd imagine everything happening between y' ears the_living:lol the_living:doesn't it? the_living:also between the fingers the_living:i think it would be quite depressing actually to get a pre-pubescent body to download your mind in to... |  | F3::I wonder if brains only would be democratic F3::brains in soup is best the_living:what do you mean by brains only F3::good soup the_living:brains only would not be nice Dread_Rat::hm, yeay, knowing what you know and with the experiences of an adult getting to grips with a small & inexperienced body and nervous system would be cumbersome F3::lets say there wouldnt be much necessary to keep em working the_living:it would be nice to 19 thought Antoine::i'm back, as an upload you could completely live in a virtual reality (theoretically) the_living:yes, that would be heavenly Antoine::i was thinking about that, but i would want someting real too the_living:imagine, all the downloaders would have young bodies probably the_living:yes, a whole wardrobe of bodies Antoine::you could choose your body every day F3::woolworths would do well the_living:hello tarz1 TarZ-ME:hey living:) F3::its the choice not the body which tickles Dread_Rat::trade in your 2nd hand bodies and purchase some new models the_living:yes, dispose of those things F3::mine is not 2nd hand the_living:i'm battering mine a bit the_living:for example...i'm getting tired the_living:which is actually a damn good thing Dread_Rat:F3 once you wanna get rid of it it is. F3::Id sell it as antique not as secondhand the_living:imagine shopping for a body |  | the_living:retail therapy TarZ-ME:shopping for a body.. lol TarZ-ME:that's almost what you do when you choose an avatar in cyberspace the_living:yes.....you dream it up F3::once you stop caring about getting damaged the_living:then there must come an interface for constructing the body just RIGHT out of the mind the_living:the mind tells the little nanobots to get working on this and that Antoine::with nanotechnology? the_living:MAKE ME SOME HAIR, says the bald man the_living:YES TarZ-ME:a physical aura the_living:make my breath smell clean, you bots, you! F3::to much organizing, I'd stick to soup and run an off-shore baha the_living:surprises me that you don't want a bod, F3 TarZ-ME::) the_living:self replication F3::*** the_living:Further work on self-replicating systems was done by NASA in 1980 in a report that considered the feasibility of implementing a self-replicating lunar manufacturing facility with conventional technology[48] F3::an army YES the_living:lookie here F3::and do survival games Antoine::the Foresight Organisation is doing research on that Antoine::living: have you read "Engines of Creation"? the_living:i am reading it now, see? Engines of Creation |  | subject related links: dutch transhumanist organisation cryonics: alcor.com extropic art manifesto foresight institute minduploading molecular repair of brain nanotechnology and NASA radio dfm international short article on minduploading